[FOSDEM] Google, FSFE, safety of women and volunteers

[Daniel Pocock]

On 12/01/2021 13:53, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
> 
> [disclaimer: although I'm using my @fosdem.org email address, please
> note that the below is my personal opinion and I'm not speaking for any
> part of FOSDEM in an official capacity]
> 
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 07:32:58PM +0100, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>> On 11/01/2021 18:59, pjotr.public445 at thebird.nl wrote:
>>> This list is for organising FOSDEM 2021. While I sympathise with some
>>> of the ideas and sentiments, I don't think it should be discussed on
>>> this mailing list. Maybe the organizers can set up a FOSDEM policy
>>> mailing list for this type of discussion, people take it there, and we
>>> stop the thread where it is now on this list?
>>
>> In recent times, there has been a lot of talk about people who were
>> enablers for Jeffrey Epstein, Donald Trump and other undesirables.
>>
>> FOSDEM can't be an enabler for Google and their sock puppets any more.
> 
> FOSDEM isn't an enabler of anyone.
> 
> Our sponsorship policy is very clear on what FOSDEM sponsorship does for
> a sponsor:
> 
> - We accept your money
> - In return, we mention the name and/or logo of your company in a few
>   places (where exactly depends on how much money you give us)
> - You have no other influence over us.
> 
> Specifically, sponsors have no influence over the schedule (the content
> team is wholly separate from and independent of the sponsorship team) or
> over who does or does not get a stand (the decision which stands to
> accept is wholly based on merits and on whether it is about free
> software, not whether someone is a sponsor).
> 
> To suggest otherwise is not based in facts and has no place on this
> mailinglist.

The word "enabler" doesn't imply that Google controls the event.  It
does not imply that FOSDEM accepts orders from Google.

People enable abuse even in cases where they do nothing.  For example,
in FSFE, there was an instance of harassment at the annual meeting.  Two
people immediately[1] resigned.

Other people saw the harassment but they did not resign.  Those people
are enablers.

> A few years ago, someone put up banners at FOSDEM that decried the
> behavior of several companies, including Google and other companies that
> are also FOSDEM sponsors. FOSDEM staff did not take those banners away;
> the suggestion of doing so did not even come up. I believe that this
> example shows clearly that sponsorhip has no influence over FOSDEM.

This is a very specific example.

The large sums of money from a sponsor have an impact on every other
person.  Different people react in different ways.

For example, in organizations without any money, maybe there are less
fights.  When organizations have a lot of money, there can be more fights.

Another example:
- female Google employees ask for equal pay, they are sacked..
- female FSFE employees ask for equal pay, they are sacked.  The blog
details[2] the similarities to Google culture in great detail.
The Google culture is spreading like Covid, the germs transported into
non-profit groups on the cash.  This can infect any organization but as
FOSDEM doesn't have employees, maybe it will not suffer identical symptoms.

>> Google is to the CIA what Blackwater are to the police.
>> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=blackwater+pardon&t=ffab&ia=web
> 
> FOSDEM is neither police nor CIA, so I fail to see how this is relevant.

This is not so much about FOSDEM as it is about Google.

>> FSFE now gets 20% of their budget from Google.  This means that several
>> booths at FOSDEM, including the FSFE booth, are part of a giant Google
>> echo chamber.  That is a massive fraud and deception upon the FOSDEM
>> audience.
> 
> FOSDEM is not the FSFE. As for the FSFE's booth, where people get their
> sponsorship from does not influence our decision on whether or not to
> decide they get a stand.

Maybe it needs to be a factor in future: if 5 groups all receive their
money from Google, if the people at some booths are employees of Google,
it is just Google hiding behind t-shirts and stickers.

>> Look at the way Google kicked out Timnit Gebru before Christmas.  Truly
>> evil.  Copy that move from the Google playbook: Kick Google and their
>> sock puppets out of FOSDEM.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timnit_Gebru
> 
> On a personal level, I agree with you that some of the more recent
> actions which Google has been taking (such as firing Timnit) are
> questionable, at best -- and possibly quite evil at worst.
> 
[snip]
> Google wishes to help FOSDEM in a financial manner. We should thank them
> for that, because without our sponsors FOSDEM simply wouldn't exist. And
> while I will agree with no reservations that there are certain ways in
> which I'd like Google to change its culture, I don't think discussing
> that is in any way or shape on topic for this mailinglist.
[snip]
Many organizations choose to take a stand, for example, there has been a
very successful campaign for pension funds to divest their shareholdings
in tobacco companies:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=divest+tobacco+shares&t=ffab&ia=web

Regards,

Daniel

1. https://fsfellowship.eu/fsfe-resignations-and-expulsions/
2.
https://fsfellowship.eu/court-case-fsfe-women-and-volunteers-face-modern-day-slavery/